Monday 11 March 2013
"Media blamed for Chareidi hatred" - (Tribune)
Front page, far right (where else?) of the current Tribune. A blue column that makes me see red. I expect most people who can read this post can also read the column, so I won't bother quoting from it. The only issue I have is the absolute gall of some charedim who are perceived as contributing nothing to Israeli society, making ever ludicrous demands, inciting everyone to dislike them with their "let us live our lives, but we won't let you live yours" intolerance, and then blaming everyone for disliking them! Perhaps if just a few of you would do something to endear yourselves to the society you are forever goading, that society will stop hating you. Contribute something instead of just taking and criticising. You are the authors of your own destiny so if the society you live amongst is sick of you, you need to improve your image. It is that simple. If the media and the police don't come to your defence, ask yourselves why they don't. Do a bit of cheshbon hanefesh. Burn down a few bus shelters, don't go into the Army, demonstrate against the secular life going on around you - and then ask the same secularists to come and help you when people start resenting you! See how pathetic that is? Good. From this starting point then, you can move to a new dawn in your relations with the society whose respect, not hatred, you desire.
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IfYouTickleUs @ifyoutickleus
ReplyDeleteRabbi Domb dared to voice unpopular views. Rare maverick in today's conformist chareidi society. I'm lucky to have attended his shiur
The True face of 'Rabbi Domb' BDE.
http://theantitzemach.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/iii-domb.html
Cant see anything for tickle to be proud about.
I listened to that entire interview and there is much that frum Londoners, Aguda, Degel, the Eida (obviously) would agree with. BDE.
DeleteAll Torah Jews reject the idea of the establishment of a state of Israel, and all of us have great difficulty supporting a state that is Jewish but secular.
The only difference between Satmar/proper NK (not the the modern NK idiots) and more mainstream chareidi like Aguda is that we believe since the state has been established we should not undermine it and support its existence (even while we decry its values). I know this is an uncomfortable truth and one we prefer not to state publicly but there it is.
I don't think you'll find a godol who has says otherwise.
You should have read the link I supplied before listening to his drivel. Then you would know more about him and what he was really like. Shall supply it again
Deletehttp://theantitzemach.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/iii-domb.html
The deceased printed a weekly called 'comment' on yellow paper paid for by the arab league. People who knew him said he most likely wanted to be buried in an arab cemetery next to the king of Jordan his lifelong friend.
DeleteHe wrote a book called the tranformation.
He was the 'shadchan' between the giyoret ruth and amram blau.
When the NK BD was against it he denounced them calling them worse names than what you read on tickle about the RCH family.
He was thrown out of Lublin yeshiva and made fun of Maharam Shapiro of daf yomi.
His business was manufacturing gold crosses.
A hesped was given for him by his sons in nissan on rosh chodesh. Very fitting.
Isser Harel the mossad head has quite a few chapters in his book about him concerning the yossele Schumacher-shtraks episode.
No rebbe ever said to go with the arabs. He was not Satmar.
Its ok I dont buy the Times so i wont be reading it; Thank you for the dire warning!
Page 24 of this morning's Times (12/3/13) is not to be read under any circumstances. Signed: All charedi rabbonim and gedolei yisroel.
ReplyDelete@chatterbox -
ReplyDeleteIf it was left to the agudah do you think we would have a homeland today? Where would we go if there was trouble in Europe? It is unbecoming of us to simply "not undermine it" and to nominally support it "since it has been established", given that Jewish boys and girls died setting it up (for us all).
It is secular because we kept out of the way and didn't get involved at the right time. We were busy learning in the yeshivos of Europe and didn't want to get contaminated with Zionism.
Now that we have the benefit of Israel's existence and can daven at the kotel etc we continue to condemn its secular stance, still without lifting a finger to defend it (or even do some community work instead) and still without actually showing how the Jewish state could be a light to the nations. All we do is criticise and operate as a thorn in the government's side. Hashem seems to be able to give it all the help it needs - that should be enough for us to accept it gladly.
Aguda itself is much closer to "zionism" than any other other chareidi party. Poalei Agudas Yisroel even had kibbutzim and contributed their part in the material foundations of the state, including in war, even while rejecting Zionism as a ideology. Had the Mizrachi movement not decided to join the World Zionist Organization originally, the suggested partnership between the two would probably have occurred and perhaps resulted in much healthier relations between dati leumi and chareidi Jews today.
ReplyDeleteLet's not start with the draft issue, please. There's a lot of misinformation about it and it's a never ending debate. Keep it between us here in GG, comfortably avoiding any bodily risks in defence of Israel.
The simpler debate is between us diaspora religious Jews: We think that the establishment of the state went against the Torah (even while knowing there is a mitzvah to live in the area that is and forever will be Eretz Yisroel).
We will support the state that houses Jews, but only because it exists and its destruction would be a second Holocaust l"o, not because ideologically we think it should exist.
Even if you ignore that chazal tell us that Torah learning is itself a defence against our enemies, the fact that there were miracles in Israel's wars shows Hashem did not decree a second Holocaust and wanted Jews in Eretz Yisroel rather than dispersed worldwide. That Hashem in his kindness did not allow the Arabs to destroy us is no support for Zionism or even Religious Zionism. For instance, there is no way that typical Tel Aviv lifestyle is anything but a desecration of true Judaism.
Israel is secular because the early Zionists did everything possible to prevent any hint of religiosity in the fledgling state, and continued to do so after the founding. Zionist history may be full of revisionism and agendas but it's absolutely clear Zionism during the state's founding and belong was fanatically anti-religious and ideologically secular. I don't even need to bring examples, it's that clear.
The National Regiloius parties (Mafdal, remember them?) tried for years to blend religiousity with Zionism and they show clearly not no amount of effort and example will convince the Israeli Seculars to act in a more religious manner.
On the other hand, the most "ultra-orthodox" the Eida Chareidis, is the anti-chareidi enemy #1 yet they settled in EY years before the state, and refuse to take a brass farthing from the state so they are ideologically and morally more sound that almost every other stripe in living in EY while rejecting the state!
I am grateful to each and every IDF soldier who fought and risked their lives and well-being, but not the Israeli establishment who are not acting in Judaism's true interests.
P.S. This is taking too much time and reading through some of your more irreverent pieces, I don't want to encourage this blog so I probably won't be commenting further, sorry. Yes, I know, I know. Chareidim self-censor and don't like criticism blah blah.
Thank you for your contributions. I only blog for the fun - am sorry if any of my posts have offended, which was really not my intention. Kol tuv.
DeleteThe ultra orthodox eida hachareidis is nothing more than a kashrut supervisor who make millions from the poor israelis. The present ones have no connection with the ones before the state. Since they are so rich why also take from the state. They do pay all state taxes and keep proper books. There is a lot of infighting there since one chasidic branch controls it.
ReplyDeleteRich? You ever been to meah shearim/beis yisroel? It's one of the poorest areas of the country and their rabbonim live in hovels!
DeleteYou dont think they distribute their ill gotten gains do you, even to 'their' rabbonim. The owners of the eidah hacharedis are rich. I am sure you can find out somehow how much the huge profits are. By the way the meah shearim properly values have sky rocketed lately. Many are selling up and moving to cause trouble elsewhere.
DeleteYou clearly know nothing about Meah Shearim. I'm not even sure why I'm engaging you but I strongly suggest you visit and talk to these "troublemakers" and you might come away more educated.
DeleteThey are an immensely successful hechsher in an extremely competitive market so they are doing something right and I don't begrudge them that, but you obviously do.
I doubt any of the "owners" (there isn't such a think) of ECh make anything more than a year's salary and I'm sorry if the fact that many of them do a honest day's work inbetween learning causes you brain to explode.
Just to end, most of them don't own their houses, they pay shissel gelt.
Its all about money-spinning and business, kashrus is just the commodity they are all selling. This is why it is competitive!
ReplyDeleteThe typical housewife (Mrs. Joe Blogs?) doesn't care whose name is on the jam or the bisuits as long as some rav has permitted it.
You sell something (the kosher label) while someone else has the expense of producing the goods, the demand for certification is guaranteed and never-ending and its a Jewish, heimish industry. Everyone is happy.
You want people to have jobs don't you?
I notice your dogs are at work again. I suppose according to your theories everyone should have one. Why does one need a rov. Just keep a dog he can do the same job. Offer him the chomets and see if he eats it. This is nothing new. In small villages where they couldnt afford a rov only a dog thats what they did. To find put if its chomets offer it to the dog. To find out if its traifa ditto. There already the torah itself says you 'throw' it to the dog. It never even mentions asking a rov.
ReplyDeleteSo Mrs Blogs when are you going to start being properly Jewish and getting yourself a dog.
In fact if a dog can decide between kosher & traif or between chometz & non-chometz, I guess a woman can too. My paskning will be as reliable as any dog's (although I dare say not everyone would agree), so since I shall not be eating the starch in my laundry, I will not be burning all our clothes, bedding, tablecloths etc with the chometz and I will be using foil lids, paper plates (and of course cosmetics). Its a dog's life as it is without actually getting one to help me make pesach.
DeleteBy the way, its not my dogs "at work again", its my overstressed adrenalin and Mr. Blogs mumbling all night about going to live in EY so that he can eat everything under one hechsher (BaDaTZ!!) Think I might have married the wrong man.
I dont which yeshivo you went (supposing youre a man) but which ever it was they didnt teach you much. If you have metal pots which it is unlikely your dog can eat you also have to kasher them. The reason being that the chomets will come out if heated again with other food. The same with tin lids. So dogs arent very helpful. I hope you dont find difficulty understanding this (if youre a woman that is).
ReplyDeleteSo if you do happen to use all the chomets you mention, just make sure you dont make it hot.