Couldn't stay quiet for more than a few days could I? No. I like opening my mouth and putting my foot in it, like an accomplished ballet dancer. And who would stay quiet anyway when their kids come home from (Adass Yisroel type) school and start talking nonsense?? Is this what we are paying thousands in fees for -
so our kids can be brainwashed by a body of rabbis so unable to process information before passing it on that it makes a mockery of the very word "teach"??
This week my daughter returned home from the said establishment and informed me that she what she is being taught by this rabbi and that one, feels a bit like being duped by a smart con artist, where you are left wondering where the actual trick is - but your watch is still not where it should be. She says Reform judaism "most likely addresses issues with honesty", where-as she and her friends are being spoon-fed non-facts disguised as emess. How can she go to Sem, she asked me, and waste another year in such an environment - and at our expense? Her guilt forbids it. She would sooner we spend our money on getting her a private Jewish Education, that deals with the basics of why we keep anything AND which is taught with intellectual maturity.
Obviously we have had to confiscate her application to the Leo Beck College and tie her up in her room. How else does one deal with such a child?
Don't blame the school Mrs. Blogs. YOU sent her there. What sort of Jewish education did you want her to have - something more chassidish? What do you teach her AT HOME? And to speak very plainly, some of your posts are not overflowing with a yiddishe outlook either. Apples and trees....
ReplyDeleteSo if I tone down my blog, my kids will finally be taught that Dovid HaMelech sinned in arranging for Uriah to be killed {so that he could marry his widow}? Or will they still be taught that Uriah deserved to die for some other reason and Dovid was just Hashem's way of bringing about this punishment (a mentality which surely justifies quite a lot of murders)?
DeleteAren't you bothered about what our kids are being taught? They see through this whitewash. Then when we try and tell them how to make pesach kehalochoh, we have no rabbinic credibility to fall back on.
And now some of these same educators are giving public shiurim about "how to make pesach according to halochoh" - (shiur for women, TONIGHT 3rd March @ Jewish Care)! My kids are feeling a bit sick about it all.
Your mistake and your daughters teachers are that we are supposed to understand everything written in the bible. They just have to be taught the story as it happened not why. Not if he sinned or didnt. Leave that for the rabbis to argue over. Girls and women should have other things on their mind, like how to bake a cake.
DeleteThese rabbi teachers shouldnt be teaching girls anyway. That should be the questions your daughter should be asking. How are they allowed to look and talk to girls who often develop a crush on them. . This is only allowed if they intend to marry them.
Out of interest what exactly will this shiur you're talking about be about. How to scrub floors and walls or kasher the sink. You should be asking your Polish goyte to attend and it should be given in her language. Or will they demonstrate how to open a mixer or is that a job for the men. Makes me wonder.
You sound like you want her to become a rabbi. I am sure the LB college will make her a very successful one. And you the very proud mother of a reform rabbi. She certainly has the making, asking questions about taboo subjects. She is right not to go to sem and contaminate the other girls there. The story goes that a reform congregant on his death bed asked for the orthodox rabbi. When asked why he replied since he was dying he wanted the 'real' thing. I hope your daughter doesnt need to wait that long to find the 'real' thing.
ReplyDeleteWhy must a man come and tell us how to make pesach? Haven't we, and our mothers and grandmothers been making pesach for hundreds of years already?
ReplyDeleteWhat man ever did it, (and keep the rest of the house ticking over so that work, school, cooking, shopping, family appointments etc are all kept on course in the process)?? Its ok to stand up and lecture about it; the theory is one thing. How patronising all this is. At least let a woman who has experience in the practicalities of running a home give the shiur, based on some kind of reality. How about you Mrs. Blogs? I am very keen to hear you in public. You speak for loads of us so don't let some yesteryear men knock you off your soap box. You might not be a rabbi, but you are certainly a leader and thinker. How novel.
Miriam
ReplyDeleteI am a Divorced man, I work full time and I will be making Pesach in my house (no poylishe goytes it would be problem of yichud or for practical reasons would feed the rumour mill!) Will be having a few families of married children plus unmarried joining me. Perhaps I can give this shiur? maybe will help me to find a new spouse?
The point I am making your generalising and tarring all men with same brush is wrong. If all women would be as you state, I wouldnt be in this situation.
Ms Bloggs you are for sure an apikores but at least I get your arguments and empathise with your frustration.
It is not some freaky Rabbi who made these assertions about Dovid Hamelech it is clearly in the gemoro לא היה דוד ראוי לאותו מעשה אלא כדי להורות תשובה ליחיד
the same statement is said about klal yisroel regarding the sin of the egel
לא היו ישראל ראויין לאותו מעשה אלא כדי להורות תשובה לרבים
Nach is very sensitive and must be taught by great talmidei chachomim and yerei shomayim for those exact reasons that you state!
the study of nach was neglected in actual fact positively avoided in the generation of the maskilim for those very reasons.
It is understandable peoples frustration with the corrupt and discredited UOHC and Halpern Dynasty as with other dictators who have weasled in to charedi establishment. The solution is to unmask THEM and then get back to genuine Toirah learning and practising yidishkeit
דרכיה דרכי נועם וכל נתיבותיה שלום
טעמו וראו כי טוב השם
By all means keep up the discussion and keep us entertained but please consider listening to a genuine torah viewpoint
I appreciate that chazal made various statements for the best of motives, and that I lack the necessary mental sophistry required to fully understand the depth of meaning in their words. So I am resigned to being an ignorant apikores (with the added problem of being a woman) and have to just live with the despair of believing that Dovid was just human - nothing more. I know I am wrong to think so ill of him but there you are. Plenty of great men are just human, believe me.
DeleteMr. Blogs and I are delighted to read that you will be having the family for Yom Tov. We were fully prepared to entertain you at our own little castle, but the woman we had in mind for you can't come anyway so you may as well stay put. Back to the rubber gloves then! When you get to the microwave, call me.
Thanks MS bloggs,
ReplyDeleteDo you really have in mind a woman for me? Oh I forgot some posters accuse YOU of being a man! now let me be very clear I AM STRAIGHT.
So am I! AND SO IS MR. BLOGS. (And I am NOT "MS bloggs", I am "Mrs. Blogs") The woman we have in mind for you is also straight. (We know a lot of different people, many of whom are straight). And let ME be very clear too: I am NOT the woman (or the man) we have in mind for you!! (If Dovid Hamelech read this he would have us all killed. Now get back to the pesach cleaning before I lose my rag altogether).
ReplyDeleteNow I know why we have LBD and Kedassia. To keep apikorsim and real yidden from socialising over pesach. Now that Mrs. Blogs can use euro lids (I presume she eats LBD) Lost Hope can't eat at her house over pesach. LBD has done you a favour, Lost Hope and you should be grateful kedassia couldn't keep up (on this occasion).
ReplyDeleteAccording to the tickle twitter. Kedassia spokesman sefardi ashaaraf converted to ashkenazi sharf (sounds better) is saying that the LBD has no idea what is going on in these factories that is why they give it a hechsher.
ReplyDeleteThe Blog house is a kedassia institution ("institution" being the operative word).
ReplyDeleteNot sure even kedassia know what goes on really in these factories. And what about the ink stamp on eggs - is that permitted this year? And what about the statement issued by the authorities in the gemora that if a dog wouldn't recognise it as food, it doesn't matter anyway??
They say the ink is edible.
DeleteI didnt realise you ate the egg shells. By the way do you have any idea what the hen eats to be able to 'manufacture' the egg shells. I doubt if dogs eat egg shells either. So if you have a dog and with a name like blogs you surely have one, dont forget to kasher him for pesach. Put him in a hot tub of boiling water, dont use your womens mikva even if its a bitch, if he dies in the process that shows he wasnt kosher to start with. And surely with a kedassia household you dont want a non-kosher dog over pesach. I am not sure what biscuits you give him. I dont think kedassia have come up with pesach ones yet.
ReplyDeleteSorry no, we don't have a dog. We are a bunch of animals as it is. None of us eats lipstick either, and if we had a dog it probably wouldn't eat lipstick, and I'm sure not even Dayan Padwa's dog eats lipstick. Or medication. Or toothpaste. But there you are. Someone's personal chumrah has become the yardstick and now nothing less will do. And if my daughter asks me why the jam (from Israel) needs a special label, I have to tell her its because daas torah requires it but we know its all gone OTT, but if she wants a shidduch she just has to keep her mouth shut. And Mr. Tickle is worried about being silenced by the libel laws of England!!
ReplyDeleteIts easier to write here than on tickle. Youre not moderated so it comes on immediately and one can remain anonymous. You claim to be a kedassia institution so what are you going to do about your chickens. On tickle's twitter it says that kedassia has given out a notice that I have also seen that 80% of chickens bought from the best farms were treifa. They have never put out such a notice before. The LBD who buy the same chickens dont seem to have a problem and they are all kosher. This must be the reason for the kedassia notice. To show us the difference and why they will be getting so much dearer. What will they do now. If the best chickens are traifo its possible that the inferior ones wont be. So this will be their excuse of selling us cheap rubbish at inflated prices.
ReplyDeleteThe LBD don't check every chicken for tzumos hagidin, as they say it's not common. LBD do spot checks on a batch (or perhaps 1 out of every x, I'm not certain). Kedassia disagree and say it's too common and each one must be checked. Most mehadrin hechsherim do this in EY and USA.
ReplyDeleteIt does appear that this year there is certainly a worldwide kosher poultry problem due to a particular strain of bird flu which affects the sinews and even the USA they appear to be panicking.
LBD should answer whether they will check each bird this year or not. It would be nice for the new Eckstein-Shnelbalg hechsherim to clarify their position on tzumos hagidin too.
LBD has answered. They are selling them, that shows that they dont check them or have different standards and what is not kosher for kedassia is kosher for them; Of course they will say they check them just as much as kedassia. That is not what we want to hear. We want to hear how its possible that kedassia find 80% traifa and they find none. Do they use different breeds. And my main other question how does kedassia intend to 'get out of it' and continue selling chickens for pesach when they are all traifa. They better come up with a very good 'teretz' which will of course include why the price has to be 'hiked' once again.
ReplyDeleteOr will they find a special 'heter' for pesach to eat traifo to stop them losing business. Mr Asharaf please reply. Tickle doesnt seem to find this a worthwhile subject or is he running scared of them now.
I hope Mrs Blogs that you have more and better xxxxx
After all those kisses, I feel it would be rude of me not to reply:
DeleteThe situation as I see it is that if you purchase your food with a kashrus certificate on it, it is kosher (even if it isn't). You have done your bit. Short of performing your own shechitah, you have to rely on the integrity of the kashrus authority and finished.
As for the discrepencies between the different authorities, I am 100% certain these are ALL politically fuelled and of no real significance. Selling chazir would be another matter, but we haven't quite sunk to that yet.
I don't believe everything on Twitter. I wait until I see it in the Tribune. I don't know who Mr. Tickle is, or Mr. (Rabbi?) Asharaf either. I imagine that all battery hens must be traif under "tza'ar ba'alei chaim" principles, but I'm not sure this is within the remit of your concerns.
As for the price of kosher meat, this is Mr. Blog's problem not mine. There's always overtime and part-time work.... I would pay him (some of his own money) to help me a bit more but he says he has to go and learn (first?)
Actually you're more right than you know. it's the battery hen conditions that cause problems with the sinews as the chickens are fed too much and don't get enough exercise which causes strain on the legs. I don't believe the LBD chickens are kept in better conditions.
DeleteTzumos Hagidin (torn sinews) is an halachic problem that all orthodox agree with, so it's not politics of chumros. The difference somes whether you believe it's an occasional problem needing spot checking, or a likely problem which requires checking each and every chicken (an expensive process).
I'm anonymous of (8 March 2013 02:57) not 06:48, who's tone is too partisan. I've given myself a name. Mazel tov.
If there would be an argument between doctors if a certain medicine is poison would you also say you have done your bit etc. That is how you have to look at traifo which 'poisons' the nshomo.
DeleteThis was not just a 'twitter' on tickle but a notice with a kedassia heading put up in all shuls. There seems to be a large 'discrepancy' between 80% traifa and all kosher. Kedassia on their notice say they have used the best quality chickens from many farms and still achieved this result. 6:48 replying
Chatterbox and 6:48 - Please can you scan in the notice that has appeared, as I must plead ignorance of it. Am I understanding that because 80% of chickens from normally reliable farms have turned out to be traif, the only kosher chickens available now are the LBD ones? They should push their prices up then!!! Please excuse me if I've missed the point, its just that I'm female. Bear with me.
ReplyDeletehttp://chaimhalpernscandal.blogspot.co.uk/
ReplyDeleteThe notice appears there but you will have to scan quite a lot down. Many other things have happened in between. On Friday an article appeared in the Guardian quoting a person they term an ex-convict who has now become the SH spokesman. If you can read the Hebrew from an Israeli blog they claim that Dayan Z Feldman of the union has warned his kehilla about this. They are mainly modern non chasidish but still wear shtriemels to keep up with the latest fashions. Shtriemels are also changing all the time unlike hats. He is scared they will start buying non kedassia chickens for pesach because it is unlikely there will be any. So he says one can manage without chickens for pesach. Mrs Blogs you have to realise that the tickle blog is now finished since he is scared to write anything and if you want to know the 'Jewish' news or what is termed the loshon hora you will have to frequent others like the one I have mentioned.
Another in terrible yiddish with worse language than any other blog on the net is http://www.efrayimpadwa.simplesite.com, the person there seems to have once been chasidish and gone OTD. Or the gaby lock who is termed the village idiot.
אתמול (ה') נשא הדיין הגאון רבי זאב פלדמן, רב בית המדרש 'עץ חיים', דרשה בה הסביר לבני הקהילה, במשך שעה ארוכה, את פשר המחסור והדגיש כי הוא זוכר ימים שגם 20 אחוז לא היו בנמצא והציבור לא אכל עופות. "חלילה וחס, אם יעלה על דעת מאן דהוא לאכול עופות שלא נבדק 'צומת הגידין' שלהם כדין, ואם לא תהיה ברירה, החג יעבור גם בלי עופות". התריע
ReplyDeletefrom that site.
I looked at the whole thing, and right at the end it said (I think!) that the problem of torn sinews only became an issue in the last 3 years. Surely this indicates that there is more to it than meets the eye?
ReplyDeleteChatterbox is mistaken these are not battery hens which are layers and kosher without any problems. These are roasters packed very tightly into very large sheds and drugged to force feed them to attain their weight very quickly. About 35 to 40 days and going quicker all the time. If they are not killed then they wont live much longer anyway.
ReplyDeleteSome time a go in SH a Belz shop was caught stealing from Frowein who was then under kedassia by bribing their driver. There was a large hue and cry because if kedassia have no controls or very lax ones and cant make sure that the meat sold in shops comes from them directly what is to stop them buying in Smithfield. Now that the belz dayan Eckstien is in charge of the new shechita where everything is kosher one wonders if these belzer shops who are under kedassia wont be doing this again. Because since they are also belzer chasidim they have to follow their dayan where everything is kosher.
This problem has been about for much longer but since the 'growing' time gets 'quicker' all the time which is the cause of it, (as layers dont have this problem) it becomes more acute.
So when we are told there won't be chickens, we will have boilers just not roasters? What a relief. We must be thankful for small mercies, because with boilers and layers you get eggs and soup for the same amount of suffering during the bird's life.
DeleteHow come everything is kosher now that Belz has a new dayan in charge? Does the halochoh vary according to who the dayan is?? That is a very clever ruling if you think about it. It means that everything is permitted by someone, even if not by one's own rov. So the problem is not intrinsically about kashrus, but about following one's own authority - a totally different obligation. Not quite politics but close.
So when we are told there won't be chickens, we will have boilers just not roasters? What a relief. We must be thankful for small mercies, because with boilers and layers you get eggs and soup for the same amount of suffering during the bird's life.
DeleteHow come everything is kosher now that Belz has a new dayan in charge? Does the halochoh vary according to who the dayan is?? That is a very clever ruling if you think about it. It means that everything is permitted by someone, even if not by one's own rov. So the problem is not intrinsically about kashrus, but about following one's own authority - a totally different obligation. Not quite politics but close.
Belz has not a new dayan in charge. The LBD trying to be frum has appointed an old dayan of kedassia who happens also to be a dayan in Belz. Its not that complicated. As far as I know he has never had any experience in kashrut. Neither has the Edgware other one. No wonder everything is kosher.
ReplyDeleteAlthough boilers are kosher as you point out, it is unlikely you will be able to get any in kedassia shops. Jewish people just dont eat them.
The reason it is 'kosher' is simply if it's not checked one doesnt find anything traifa. So the LBD just dont bother checking. Like burying ones head in the sand one see no evil. I dont think its an argument on what is kosher. Both are agreed that torn ligments are traifo. One must point out that even the kedassia dont check it properly. Only lower down on the foot where they make an incision and see if they can 'pull' the tendons. If it was done higher up they wouldnt be able to sell it.
LBD do check, just spot check instead of checking each and every chicken. I eat only Kedassia, but please be accurate.
DeleteCorrected on the battery hen part. Comes to the same thing.
The answer is surely for the kehilla to operate its own free range chicken farm, with enough chickens to feed our ever-increasing numbers over the course of the year(s). If we can't do that, we have to either eat birds with torn sinews or find something else to eat. I can't see another solution regardless of which authority one follows.
ReplyDeleteFree range is not the problem or the answer. Empire in the US have perfected a breed with fewer problems and have their own hatcheries which provide for the farms they use. All it needs if for the LBD and kedassia to obtain this breed here. There is a breed which Sainsbury sells called hubbard which is also good. But these BD's only want things on the cheap, and care more about money than kashrut.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/livestock/poultry/poultry-for-meat/
These take a lot longer to 'grow' and therefore are kosher.
Hubbard hen We favour the Hubbard, bought as day-old chicks and slaughtered at 10-12 weeks.
The kedassia and LBD treifa ones are less than six weeks.