Tuesday 15 January 2013
A woman's place is in de heim
If I have learnt anything today, it is that I am a real idiot. I have lived for [ ] number of years in some kind of bubble, in which great rabbis are men of high character. Today that bubble went bang: it turns out that the great rabbis are in fact women, and that I could have been one of them if I hadn't listened to my parents all those years ago and gone to Sem. What was the point of that? All I can do from where I am now is sit on the sidelines and fume, and because I am allowed even less access to the internet than my husband (who only uses it for his work), I have no outlet for all the interesting things I need to get off my chest. I have less of a public voice than the woman who reads the shipping forcast. Where is it written that a woman has to live like a cholent, simmering away until she's fit to burst, while the men come out with all the tripe the next day? Enough! From now on, I'm the one coming out with all the tripe . . .
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Although the tripe on "ifyoutickleus" takes some beating. Half the time I feel as though I'm at a shiur, and the rest of the time I'm sure I'm watching CSI (with a temperature)or sitting in the public gallery at a trial by internet. (Glad to see the asifah achieved its aims! Not sure why we have rabbonim at all any more - they were useful once, before computers....) I thought a hard drive was London-Gateshead in under 2 hours. It is, in fact, a potential bit of evidence in The Hindsight Saga, (published by Hotoffthe Press, 2016). Just shows you how wrong you can be.
ReplyDeleteYou're right there is a lot of 'tripe' on that site. But dont mistake it for a shiur, most of the bloggers there have no idea what they're talking about. Its mostly the same people over and over again. They dont have much to add. First the hard disk was wiped clean now it wasnt. It is a hard drive wading through all the comments there. I think I can surprise you, we really dont have rabbonim anymore, at least not in London.
ReplyDeleteThe chicken 'fight' is really the 'in' thing now. But Mr Tickle usually waits till its history before telling us about it.
The LBD was about to make a new super kashrut against the kedassia. But Poland has joined in and upstaged both of them by providing cheap meat and even extra kosher.
Mr Tickle who now advertises your site now claims he always publishes comments. Well mine never seem to see the light of day and I am sure many others. His latest 'brush' with the tribune ignorant 'torah' writer is most interesting. For the record, tselophchod whatever sin he did in his time in the desert everyone knew about it. The gemoro's only question is if we, later generations are also allowed to. RCH is still among us and we are all entitled to know. How a whole article in the JT and numerous comments on Tickle cant comprehend that is today's malaise that people just cant learn.
ReplyDeletedrai-kop my dear friend, Tickle does pass all comments except perhaps one or two objectively evil ones. More likely is that you got filtered by Blogger's spam control or that you tried to comment while authenticated with OpenID. Try clearing third-party cookies. If you don't know how to do this or if that doesn't work, email me.
ReplyDeleteAs to Tzelofchod, feel free to email me if you want a real debate and I'll do my best to respond ("email" link on Blogger profile).
No Sir.
ReplyDeleteMr Tickle once even admitted that he had 'overlooked' my comments. I never used open id there. I will not use another name just to see my views in print. If he finds my regular comments which were very often pro RCH 'objectively evil' so be it. His blog is anyway running out of control with huge lengthy comments all saying nothing or what this lady calls tripe.
I have nothing really to add about Tzelophchod, I think I have said it all. I am not the debating type, I look for the truth not just to debate for the sake of it.
"Overlooked" is very likely, seeing how many comments he gets and I'm certain none of your comments were "objectively evil", and in any event that criteria is pure speculation on my part as I don't know Tickle. I also have no idea how many of your comments failed to get through, but if you Google it, you'll discover blogger can swallow comments accidentally.
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that, for all his faults, he is honest.
I'm not interested in a debate for the sake of it, either. I agree his blog has run out of control, and my 5 posts on earlier this week didn't help. (I just don't like seeing named members of our kehillah unfairly attacked, even if they do write for a paper.)
Your comments so far have been excellent especially as it was clear you were on both sides of the argument most of the time, so it's a shame if some of them didn't get published. On the other hand, your putting-down of various rabbonim by name, some of it unnecessary weakened your arguments and painted you in an unkind light.
I took on the role as a self-appointed voice of moderation as some of the attacks
That said, many of the rabidly "anti" camp are more impressed by linguistics and style than substance. If you'd put slightly more effort into conveying your points clearly, your commentary would have been far more effective. I'm sure your loshon hakodesh סגנון is better.
Again No Sir.
ReplyDeleteI couldnt find your blogger profile or your email. You are very elusive.
I am not scared to 'put down rabbonim' by name. We in London dont even have third rate ones. Most have never written anything and dont spend their time learning at all. DSF sefer as I wrote is totally against halacha and taken to 'pieces' by R Mordche Gross our new polish poultry hechsher. R Dovid Frand seforim are mostly likutim and no geonus there. Proof being that later seforim on the same subjects who quote him can find nothing of interest there. My hebrew is not very good, I am born and educated in England and have been to university. If yeshivos and kollelim would be run on university lines it would be better for all of us. My points are very clear, I just dont believe in rambling on about them.
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DeleteYou're right, my profile was switched recently to a Google Plus one with no information, whoops. It's bengyferster@gmail.com
ReplyDeleteIt's not brave to anonymously, publicly attack rabbonim without a chance of defence. Universities are run on the "publish or perish" principle, which is exactly what you don't want, given your criticisms of rabbonims' seforim. Elucidating isn't rambling.
ReplyDeleteSorry to interrupt, but I too need some attention. Do either of you think I need to tone down my posts? Would be a shame because I've been stewing for so long without an outlet and the frustration does eventually get to one. But I'll be guided by 2 or 3 wise men/women.
Well. You are right it may not be brave but what is the alternative that they should get away with it. You seemed to misunderstand my point about universities it has nothing to do with publishing.
ReplyDeleteFair enough, I don't know in which ways you want kollelim to learn from universities, but let's leave that, unless you feel like emailing.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, this is rather rude, arguing on Joe Blogs doorstep while ignoring the host ...
You dont need to 'tone' down your posts but like I originally wrote, to understand the London Jewish community. Your type of posts complaining about being too frum would go down well on the American blogs like FM or the OTD haemtza.blogspot who do that all the time but not the London ones. Mr Tickle has been outed often on FM and lately when his cousin's daughter was in the 'thick' of the news he avoided the issue.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteMy problem is this: I understand the London Jewish community very well, having been raised in it, but not perhaps the charedi world. On the other hand, I really didn't think the charedi community was so strained at the leash that it had to resort to net blogging -this has stumped me! Blogging is not supposed to be for charedim, who have the Tribune and other outlets (eg rallies and informal chats at the mikvah/shiur) for modern day machlokos leshem shomayim. But if the rabbonim have stifled all debate, such that anyone who questions anything is "belittling daas torah" etc, then I suppose blogging is the only option. In which case, why be so tame and frum about what to blog about? Go the whole hog and air your views surely? Freedom at last!
"When his cousin's daughter was in the 'thick' of the news he avoided the issue". What is this all about?? What issue did he avoid?
http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed101479
ReplyDeleteHis cousin is the woman involved.
You seem to forget that one can remain anonymous on here or on tickle. We dont question the Torah or the rabbis interpretation of it. But we do question the rabbis being suitable for their job. One dayan's son is at the moment on bail for child molesting. What does that tell us.